What techniques do thanatotherapists use in their session? What are the problems people want help with? Vladimir Baskakov, a psychologist, body therapist, director of the Institute of thanatotherapy, the author of a unique technique answered these and other questions in the second part of the conversation with the chief editor of Pravda.Ru Inna Novikova.
Vladimir, what happens during your thanatotherapy sessions and how do people find you?
"We do not place ads on the fences "an experienced thanatotherapist will help you die.""
I haven't seen a single ad.
"Of course. People come to us as they come to a good gynecologist or a dentist, based on a recommendation. Therefore, they already know that they will lie on the floor."
You put people on the floor?
"We do not put them on the floor, we suggest they do so, it's a big difference. Moreover, offering to lay down, we offer to do an investigation. We ask them like a doctor would - what are your complaints? They begin telling us. They always complain about four issues, only four issues - excessive control and excessive intelligence. Do you remember how humanoids are portrayed? With a large head and limbs, people from the future. That is, excessive control. The second problem is a problem in the area of feelings, contacts, arms contact. Here I will use a professional term again, there is grounding of the senses. That is how a person feels, how a person contacts. By the way, I can show you everything with my hands.
It is very convenient to show here, there are models. Let's assume that when two people contact, it's an ideal contact. If one is different from another, it's not an ideal contact. Why do you think it's like this?"
Because there is insufficient contact.
"The area is insufficient, of course. The contact, mind you, is still alive, dynamic. If someone dies at this moment, if this person had a complicated life, they have to follow. You know those fairy tales where people lived long and then died on the same day. I buried my mother last year, and my farther no longer wants to live. I apply my techniques on him to hold him here somehow. Dead people pull us with them, hence all the rituals to prevent them from doing this. There is an opposite Indian ritual when women burn themselves after their husband dies. This tradition exists to this day. This was the second problem, the problem of contacts."
You named two of the four problems.
"The third problem, as you know very well, is sexual relationships. Why do these problems occur? They do not occur with animals, why do they occur with people? Because people lost contact with the earth. Animals are pulled down to the ground, or rather, pinned down by gravity, and we are Homo erectus who got up and changed it all. This is why we have such a heavy head. None of the animals have such a heavy head. Our hands are free. Where do we put them? We use them for communication, gestures, and so on and so forth. So here's the next, basic problem - it's our groin, sexual relationships. Here again, when compared with the animals, they do not have any problem with it. They come up to each other, sniff each other out and either do it or don't. But interestingly, there is something I've never seen in the animal world. I have never seen, let's say, a bull having an intercourse with a cow who would pet its udder with the front hooves. That is, animals have very superficial contacts, while humans, on the contrary, have a very broad range. We're back to the idea of an ideal contact. When you have sex, or even have an orgasm, you lose control, you explode. What do you do? You grab on to the other person, press yourself against her to confirm yourself. When you touch your pants or your skirt with your hand, to the same extent your pants or skirt touches you. I cannot give you more than you take. I cannot take from you more than what you give me. It is the law of contact. This is the third basic problem. This is a common problem. The fourth problem is feet. This topic is very complex, nearly dramatic. This is the problem of stability."
What stability are you talking about?
"Take a boat for example. There are two people in the boat, one is sitting and the other one is standing. The one who is sitting suddenly shakes the boat. What do you think is the first impulse of the standing person? "
To try and hold on somehow.
"No, no, no. She will immediately get down and grab the sides of the boat. That is, get grounded, i.e., will be closer to the ground. Here's a mechanism. That is, these stresses, this instability, are quite an insane method."
But people don't walk around talking about their problems with their legs or groin.
"No. It can be a very long story, they can talk about it for a long time."
What if a person says "you know, all my money was stolen, I am sad and don't know how to live?"
"If the person is in business, and if their money is stolen, it's a separate issue. This is a separate issue, because our businessmen have another, fifth, problem. It is a constant stress because the conditions are constantly changing. They cannot relax under this stress, despite the fact that they have tremendous opportunities. Maldives and all, first and second - they have disrupted sleep, there are different options here, they have issues with sexual relationship, that is, the word "orgasm" is generally something incomprehensible. And the last thing is the fear of death, of course. Here are five major problems. But we have to be very careful. If such a person comes here and complains about business, and asks to rid them of these problems, we have to warn right away that their business will no longer interest them."
So, do you change people's perception or what do you do with them?
"We do not do anything. Do you remember the law of contact? How can we do something on behalf of a person? This is not an impact."
Well, let's take some other problem, maybe not connected with business. People talk about their problems anyways. Someone lost a loved one, they cannot come to terms with it, the problem of loss of contact.
"Look, we are working with the body and through the body. What they tell us is just shaking the air. To start working with the body, we have a wonderful phrase "let's investigate how you treat your body." Why? Because everything they order can be represented as a metaphor. For example, he comes and says, "I want to take this castle here." We are looking at this castle, and there are cliffs, a three-meter wall, a lot of defenders. My question immediately to anyone who orders is "What do you have? Do you have troops? Do you have siege weapons, do you have enough resources for three years?" And so on and so forth. That's what this person has before he orders and takes the castle. Here's what I list, the so-called bodily processes, the way he breathes, the way he sits, the way he looks, the way he talks, and so on. Therefore, to fulfill his order since we provide a service, so to speak, we are in the service sector, in order to transfer it in any real direction, I'm simply suggesting to see how he manages what he has, his bodily processes, etc. He has to lie down. Why? Because the contact area of his body with the surface he lies on is maximal."
What if he comes in and says: "My soul is hurting, my heart is aching"?
"I will ask him to lie down."
Would he consider you insane?
"I think that this metaphor with the castle is quite understandable. As a body psychotherapist, as a thanatotherapist I don't understand aching soul. Is soul a body part or what is it?"
We have it somewhere, people point to their heart when speaking of their soul.
"How is aching soul manifested? When does it ache?"
There are plenty of examples. Not only in our country, but everywhere. Maybe even butterflies have aching souls and lots of concerns. It has to do not even with the type of problems we encounter, but how we can treat them.
"Remember our theme, the theme of transition. Therefore, if the soul is aching, and he orders that it should stop aching, this is our theme. So let's see if he can move from one state to another. This is again a topic of breath."
Wait, don't you treat those who are afraid to die?
"We do not treat, wait a second ... We do not treat, don't compromise our relations with the Ministry of Health, so to speak ..."
If someone comes to you with any diagnosis - soul, kidneys, whatever, will you help?
"See, if I were to say that we treat all the conditions you've mentioned and assist anyone, there would be a mile-long line to my office. Of course not, because it's always a coincidence, as the key to the lock. Actually, what we offer is to try on a suit. Does it fit? If it does, then it is yours. We do not tailor, we do not make alterations. Coincidences are always a complex thing. In fact, there's even a question why there are so many different types of psychotherapies, psychics, etc.? Because not everyone helps everyone, correct?"
Yes, because everyone needs something different. Someone would be better off taking pills.
"There is an old man who treats eczema with pig urine mixed with nettles. You can send an entire scientific expedition to study his method that will disintegrate all chemical composition of the mixture and will not be able to find an answer."
There are plenty of methods. How to choose the one that will work? How to choose the one that fits?
You have to at the very least try, at least try.
(To be continued)
Not that long ago, we were invited to a party in Delhi. A lady had just come back from her first time visit to America. She said that Americans are the happiest people